Transcript:
Mitch Tidwell:
Well, howdy friends, and welcome to The Roundup Podcast. I’m your host, Mitch Tidwell. Thank you for joining us today. I’m really pumped about this episode, which is the first episode of the spring semester, and looking forward to speaking with Brandon Gilbert, he is the Director of Residency at Redeemer Church in Lubbock, Texas. Brandon, how you doing, man?
Brandon Gilbert:
I’m doing great, Mitch. Great to be on with you today, man.
Mitch Tidwell:
Yeah, glad to have you on. Brandon and I got to hang out at Send Summit back in October, which is a collegiate church planning event that the Roundup Network does in partnership with Redeemer Church in Lubbock. And really, was fascinated with the residency that you guys provide at your church, and how you guys are developing young people, developing college graduates and kind of sending them out. You have these residencies in different pockets of the church, with this ultimate goal of church planning. But one of the questions that people were asking while we were there, is they were like, and then I’ve had other people ask is like, how to develop a residency program. So, I want to kind of dive into that, but first I just want to ask, Brandon why don’t you tell us just a little bit about yourself, man? How did you get to Redeemer, and in the role that you’re in? Because you’re actually fairly new to Redeemer, at least as a staff person, right?
Brandon Gilbert:
Yeah. I’ve been on staff for about six months, and my wife and I have been members here for about six years. And so, before Redeemer, seems like a lifetime ago, I was a lead pastor here in Lubbock at a small church called Fellowship. And that’s really where Dusty Thompson, who’s the lead pastor of Redeemer and I, really struck up a good friendship. And he kind of mentored me, I was a young lead pastor, really zealous, and trying to figure out what I was doing. And so, we started meeting once a month, and developed a really good friendship. And just through a series of events, got to a point where I realized that that wasn’t the track for me, and resigned, and went back into the teaching world, and taught and coached for a while.
Brandon Gilbert:
And the joke is, we just became faithful members at Redeemer, and got to serve as an elder for two and a half years now. And the joke was always, “Hey, one day Brandon, we’re going to hire you.” And I was like, “Sure, whatever.” And the residency director position was kind of created in this fact that we were starting to have a influx of post-college students , who were wanting to be equipped. And at the same time simultaneously, our college ministry was gaining momentum. And Kent Carroll, who’s the college director here, I don’t know if any of you guys there know him, was trying to juggle two things at the same time, and it was getting pretty overwhelming.
Brandon Gilbert:
And so, it was a role that, when I look back at everything I did as a pastor, leading leaders to lead was always the focal point. And always the things that brought me the most joy, was watching a young man or woman get developed in their leadership and theological capabilities, and then be able to replicate that as they were sent out. So, that’s kind of how it got to this point, and six months in we feel like we’re still trying to figure out how all these things flow together, but really excited for what that looks like for us, now that we have some focus on it.
Mitch Tidwell:
Oh, that’s cool. So, you guys had, how long has the residency program been in the life of Redeemer Church?
Brandon Gilbert:
Yeah, so it’s taken on, it’s probably been here six years, and really taken on from an internship to an informal discipleship. I would give Kent a lot of credit for the groundwork, as far as our theological equipping has become, to kind of what it’s shaping into today. And so, it’s been probably three years of what it’s looked like today, with the real focal point of equipping to send our residents.
Mitch Tidwell:
Okay. All right, so let’s just take, you’ve got somebody that’s sitting across from you… Well, I am, at least on the phone. Wondering, “Hey, how do we even begin with this?” Because setting up a residency, which I know that you aren’t involved in the front end of that. But I think with your understanding of it, if I’m setting something like this up, because it seems like a tall task, I just don’t know if we have the ability, the capacity. And something that Kent has always said, because I’ve heard him tell it to a couple of people, is it’s actually not as hard as you think it is. So, if there’s a person out there, what’s the core of a residency like? What do I need to know in order to set something like this up, to that post-college grad that is maybe called to ministry, or maybe really doesn’t know what they’re going to do, but wants to be equipped within the church. Where do you even begin on something like that?
Brandon Gilbert:
Yeah, I think that’s a great question. And I think we can complicate it beyond, paralyze ourselves sometimes. And when it comes down to it, I think the willingness of the church to be able to step into that developmental process, is first and foremost. And when we boil it down to the nuts and bolts of our residency, we’re looking at it really three things in particular. One is theological equipping, understanding core competencies and doctrines, and disciplines. The second would be biblical training. We may get into some of the weeds here in a little bit, but we want our residents to know the Bible. In an age where the Bible is becoming less and less of a focal point, we want that to kind of the rock of our residency program.
Brandon Gilbert:
And then the third side, is the practical development. And that’s what, hey, what does it look like to work in a church? I think a lot of people have a view of that, and sometimes it’s really off or maybe spot on, but what does it look like to work inside ministry and do ministry? Where you’re not out on the golf course five days a week, but there’s things to be accomplished, and there’s people to be discipled, and systems and things to be put in place. And so, that’s how we boil down our residency, is our theological equipping, our biblical training, and then our practical development. And I think that’s what any church would be looking at starting a residency, I think that’s really where you start to move the ball forward in developing leaders.
Mitch Tidwell:
Gotcha, okay. Now, when you say theological equipping, biblical training, how would you guys define both of those? How are those different?
Brandon Gilbert:
Yeah, so we do two different things with our residents, when it comes to we’ll call it, our cohort. And our cohort meets once a week for two hours, and those cohorts are built around the structures of biblical training and theological equipping. Our biblical training is in the two year residency program. So, our residency program is 24 months, and in those two years, our residents are going to walk through every book of the Bible. And so, in the four semesters that they’re with us, they’re going to walk through with a lot of our, we have lay church members that will come and teach, and a lot of our staff members that will just walk through overviews, and then the Jesus narrative of every book in the Bible. And so, they’re going to sit for two hours and have discussion, and dialogue, and learning historical and contextual aspects of each book of the Bible.
Brandon Gilbert:
They’re going to write… One of the things that I love about our residency program is when they leave here, they’re going to have a summary of every book of the Bible, a resource that they’ve built themselves. Not something that they’ve taken offline, but something that they’ve put some time and effort into, that will hopefully help them in whatever aspect of kingdom work they go into after our residency. And so, that’s the one aspect, is they’re going to sit and we’re going to do biblical training. On the weeks we’re not in the book of the Bible, we have partnered with, and the Austin Stone has been very generous, they’ve developed a great resource called Doctrines and Disciplines. And it’s just identified 18 of the core doctrines that would be consistent with our theological bent at Redeemer. And those are, whether it’s the doctrine of the word of God, the doctrine of Christ, Imago Dei, just some of those things that we want our residents to be developed in.
Brandon Gilbert:
And so, we have 18 lessons that are complete with activities, and case studies and then a lecturer to go for that two hour cohort time, that we’ll lecture on the communicable attributes of God. And how those, not just from a theoretical point of view, but how those really play out in ministry. And I think that’s really what we want for our residents, is not just to be able to win a debate theologically, but really how do these things that I know about God, that I know about the Bible, that I know about man, compel me into deeper relationship, and deeper discipleship, and help equipping the church members that I’ve been given care of? And so, those are how we would differ those two things, just for a practical look at our cohort.
Mitch Tidwell:
Gotcha. Yeah, okay. And so, sounds like that cohort, that’s a weekly two hour meeting, and that’s kind of the main vehicle that’s driving a lot of this?
Brandon Gilbert:
Yeah, that’s our main focus. They’ll read through Systematic Theology by Grudem in that. Outside of that, they have weekly discussion groups within their cohort, so we’ll even split those up. I think we have five discussion groups this year. And so, those discussion groups will have homework from the previous cohort, that they’ll be walking through on a Monday morning, and giving them another chance to process what they’ve learned, and how they can practically apply those things that they’ve learned in their lecture, on Thursday morning.
Mitch Tidwell:
Okay. So, 24 month residency, the three core things, theological equipping, biblical training, practical development. Let me ask you this: I want to get back into some of those core, especially that practical development piece, but before I do that, as you all are, I guess, maybe recruiting or opening up for post-grads to come into your residency, what does that process look like? Who are you looking for to come in, and be a part of this?
Brandon Gilbert:
Yeah, so right now, historically our pipeline has come directly from our college ministry. And so, Redeemer College fuels a lot of that, with their student leaders and those who are in student leadership, they’re casting vision for residency early on. And so, a lot of that has been our relationship with Redeemer College in particular. And so, if I was to look on our residents right now, out of the 15 that we have, 13 of them are home grown, so to say, from Redeemer College. And so, when we’re identifying those guys, we’re looking for leadership traits that they’re already exemplifying, for sure. Knowing that these are going to be green, young, there’s going to be some wading into developmental messiness, and that’s okay. That’s the risk we’re willing to take.
Brandon Gilbert:
But we want to wade into that, and so we’re trying to create vision with our college ministry. And then from there, we’re looking to expand that to other Texas based universities, and whenever this pandemic is kind of, we can travel again, our hope is to be on colleges and universities, where we can cast vision for that outside of just our network. One of our big partners is Reliant, and Reliant is an organization out of Orlando, that helps us with our pre-assessment process as far as application. And then, they have an interview process that they conduct, we have an interview process on our end with their direct supervisor that they’ll be working under. And they will help with support raising and all that stuff. But those are kind of the beginnings of that. We want to look inward, and then hopefully cast a vision outside of that as well.
Mitch Tidwell:
Yeah. And Reliant, whenever I talk to anyone, at least here in Texas about residency, Reliant comes up a lot, and I always hear really great things about it. In what ways do they help you, and kind of help supplement what you’re doing there in the residency?
Brandon Gilbert:
Yeah, they’re a wonderful partner, and I can’t talk highly of them enough. They come in, and from the beginning, they have the framework as far as application process and setting up, making sure that it’s a thorough character, theological, discipleship assessment, that our interviewers here at Redeemer will be able to really get into the interview and create a conversation, with those who want to come on as residents. They also partner with us, and they’re more of an objective view as well. They don’t have any skin in this game, they want to see our residency grow, but they also want to see it healthy. And so, they’ll come in and give us their assessment based on their interview as well, and say, “Hey, maybe here are some red flags or yellow flags you may want to look at,” and just give some advice on that end.
Brandon Gilbert:
The other partnership that’s really important with them, is they come in and do our support raising. So, our residents are all support raised, they will just as an international mission goer would be, they’re going to cast a vision for domestic sending as well. And so, they come in and do a very robust, in-depth training, to help take the scariness out of support raising. And I think that’s one of the biggest wins for us, is that they’re able to walk our residents step by step, from initial meeting, to follow up, to having partners come on, and even how you frame some of those conversations. That’s been a huge blessing for our church, to be able to lean on somebody who does that really, really well.
Mitch Tidwell:
Wow, all right. So, they’re going to help in that assessment process, they’re also helping in some of that administrative backend, like financial support. So, that sounds like that’s a huge lift off of a local church, man.
Brandon Gilbert:
Yeah, it’s a big lift.
Mitch Tidwell:
Yeah. So, this is something to get into, when you talked about support raising. Because I think what a lot of people, leaders think is, “Well, we don’t have the budget. The church can barely pay me, how are we going to pay anybody else to come in and do this?” But all of your residents are fully support raised, is that correct?
Brandon Gilbert:
Yeah, every resident is a hundred percent support raised, which is one of the blessings for them, I think, when they look back on their residency as well. We do their end of residency exit interview, and you ask, “Hey, what are some of the most influential parts of your residency?” And without fail, most of them will say, “Support raising as hard as it was, was one of the most sanctifying things, and trusting the Lord, that I’ve done in the residency.” And so, it’s a great thing for the local church to be able to partner with an organization like Reliant, because at the end of the day, Reliant is the one that’s doing all the payroll and the taxes, and even from those practical points of view, insurance and all that stuff, that’s really taken that load off a smaller church that’s looking to set this thing up. Man, you have somebody that does this day in, day out, it really does help a lot.
Mitch Tidwell:
Oh man, I bet. Wow. So, I want to dive into this piece here, where you talked about… So, we talked a little bit about the core things that you’re doing, and you have theological equipping, biblical training. Now, that practical development piece, do you have, is it like a student or a post-grad comes in and says, “Hey, I want to do worship ministry, I want to do children,” and that you create a path for them? Or how does that work for you guys?
Brandon Gilbert:
Yeah, so that’s a great question. I think it’s something that is unique to Redeemer, is that we do offer pockets and specializations. Now, granted we’re open-handed with those, in fact, we’re having conversations with residents right now. The goal of residency is they come in with a big funnel at the top right, they don’t really know what, they don’t know the direction. And some of them really do, and it’s really clear. A lot of my residents this year, are like, “I know the Lord’s calling me to ministry, I don’t know what that looks like, I think worship right now.” But the goal of the residency is to laser focus that by the end. And so, we do, we offer collegiant, worship, our international sending, youth, and then family, are the lanes right now.
Brandon Gilbert:
And so, they’ll identify a place. And obviously as a church, we want to look to where it’s going to be the best use of their time and their abilities. But also our scalability, if we have however many youth, and we got a hundred residents, and we’ve got a massive number of college students and only four residents, we’re going to move some of those guys into the college residency. But that’s something that we partner with, each one will have a direct supervisor that specifies work in their area. So, I know we’re on a collegiate podcast, so our collegiate is our largest residency, it’s our largest ministry at the church right now. And so, they are going to sit under our associate directors, Sam and Leslie, and under Kent, ultimately.
Brandon Gilbert:
And they’re going to be equipped with day in, day out tasks of outreach, and making sure that they’re having student connections. They’re going to be creating trainings and equipping, and they’re going to be learning what that college ministry offense looks like for two years. And so, all my different specialties, and they’ll get to try different things from, we’ve really, as much as we’ve been in the midst of COVID, we’ve had to change some things as far as our on-campus presence. But when that happens again, we want to have a great on-campus presence for outreach to Texas Tech and LCU. And so, they’re all given different competencies, and different specifications in the midst of their ministry, that kind of helps them decide for the call. But also helps us to create something that will hopefully be replicable down the road, when we send them out.
Mitch Tidwell:
Man, that’s great. And even as I’ve been with you guys, I’ve been just really impressed in seeing just young people really develop in that, and gotten to know several of your residents. What are some of the positive takeaways that you guys have experienced through having a residency, that maybe you’re not totally, maybe you just didn’t see on the front end of it? Like, maybe some unexpected wins or something like that.
Brandon Gilbert:
Yeah. I think that, yeah, as we look back at our residency, it’s a great question. I’m just joyful to see somebody come in with limited biblical knowledge, and then every semester they’re meeting in a case study over a doctrine, and being able to articulate their biblical stance on certain things, I think has been something that kind of goes under the radar. Our ultimate goal is to send them, that they’re theologically equipped to be sent, to be effective staff members at churches or church plants. But also, you see these things that are just happening, where their biblical confidence and their ability to share their faith is just growing and growing, and then they’re discipling other people.
Brandon Gilbert:
I think that’s a huge win, even if they just become an all-in church member. I think that’s been, maybe one of the biggest wins, is we’ve had some that have just said, “You know what? Full-time vocational ministry is not, this is not for me, but I love the church and I’m going to be able to serve the church in my capacity, as a professional, working nine to five job.” And so, I think that’s another win, is we want to send, not just people who are filling pews, but people who are going to be meaningfully involved in their local church. If they choose, if the Lord says hey, this isn’t the direction for you, vocational ministry isn’t where we have you going, I think that’s a huge win as well.
Mitch Tidwell:
What were you guys, we’ve talked about this a little bit, but because I don’t feel like that you guys are putting people in these different pockets, and then being like, “Hey, see you later,” after a couple of years. But you guys really have an intentional vision on church planning. Can you share a little bit about how you guys have really connected your residency to church planning?
Brandon Gilbert:
Yeah, so this has become our focus. Our church planning is designed to really replicate what we’re doing here at Redeemer, and that’s reaching college campuses and college cities, and ultimately equipping those college students and mobilizing them. And so, as we look at the partnership that our ministerial residents have with our church planting residents, the desires that these guys who are serving in our residency program, are being equipped to be able to be staff members for our church planning residents. We’re not just in the business of training up a church planter and going, “Well, hey, good luck finding a staff, good luck planting in this town.” Church planting is already hard enough. We want to send them with a team that’s going to help them, and position them for the most success, and longevity that they can have. With 3000 churches closing their doors yearly, we want to make sure that we have a solid staff that has longterm vision for reaching college campuses, and empowering and mobilizing the next generation, to then go do the same.
Brandon Gilbert:
And so, we’ve tied those things together. We cast vision early on with our residents, even in the interview process of church planting, to get their minds thinking about being sent as something exciting. And that’s been a shift that we’ve had in the last couple of years, where it used to be at Redeemer, just because of our staff size and the turnover we were having, that if you did the residency, you more than likely may have just gotten hired at Redeemer. That’s become less and less, and our desire more and more is to send those equipped residents out.
Brandon Gilbert:
And so, we’ll have some that will join existing churches as staff members, but a lot of them will go on, as we want to staff our church planners with a college director. It’s such an important focus for us. We want to establish them with a woman on staff, we want to have a sending DNA from the beginning, that says, “Hey, we’re not just about building this church’s kingdom, but about building the kingdom globally.” And that goes into that duplicating what you’re seeing, and ultimately with the purpose of seeing more and more people come into the kingdom, and more and more people equipped in their faith.
Mitch Tidwell:
I think that’s one thing that I’ve really been impressed, just even at Send Summit, talking to several of the residents on staff. I remember talking to a young man who is a worship resident, and I was just talking to him about what he’s doing, how he’s involved in the church. And then really, he began just to cast vision to me, of like, “Yeah, my goal here is to be sent out with a church plant.” And you just think that’s such a cool thing, because we have a tendency, and this is not just churches, it’s organizations in general, just to become really siloed.
Mitch Tidwell:
And yeah, I think it would be quite normal for him, like, “Well, I’m going to do worship, and I’m probably just going to go to an established church, and go do this. And yeah, that church planting residency over there, they do their own thing,” that kind of thing. But just the, I guess the synergy, I guess that’s maybe the word for it, I thought it was super cool, and I love how you guys are doing it. And I think, what’s the terms that you guys use? You’re wanting people to either go to the nations, plant domestically, or just be a lifelong faithful church member? Is that the three things?
Brandon Gilbert:
Yeah, those are really the three we want to see from mobilizing our college students, is to see them sent to the nations, see them part of a church plant, or just being an all-in church member, would be the words that we would use.
Mitch Tidwell:
Yeah, that’s cool. Well, let me ask you this, let’s jump down into some real practical things here. Okay, I’m sitting across from you, Brandon, I’m like, you know what? I’m a college leader, let’s just say because that’s mostly who’s listening. I’m a college leader in my church, and I’d love to set up a residency to develop some of the post-grad students here. What’s the first thing that I need to do? Do I need to talk to you, do I need to call Reliant? What does that look like?
Brandon Gilbert:
I think the first thing you need to do, is in your own heart cast a vision for developing leaders. I think the people perish for lack of vision, and if it’s something that you’re doing and not something that you are, it’s going to just become another program. And I think that that’s the part of Redeemer that we’ve desperately fought for, is that we want a sending culture, and not just attaching residency to something that we’re, just another program that we want to do. And so, I think that’s the first thing I’d give to a college leader, is to look at them and go, “Is this your part of your DNA, or do you want it to be?” And then the practical steps would be, are you casting vision to your college students? Are you talking about residency? Are you talking equipping?
Brandon Gilbert:
And even if it’s base level, maybe it’s not starting a full time ministry. Maybe it’s starting a cohort at Thursday nights, and going, “Hey, we’re going to walk through these books of the Bible, and this theological equipping,” I think that that’s a great starting point. It’s a really low, low bar, but also is going to help you, man, smoke out any of those people who are like, “I want to take the next step in leadership.” And then if you start to see some momentum growing from that, and I think that’s talking to your church leaders, and talking to your pastors, and beginning to have that. I think one thing that Redeemer has seen, is that this hasn’t just been a college-focused thing, that this is something that our church is in on, and is growing more and more aware of, and wanting to see more and more, as they’re a lot of the supporters.
Brandon Gilbert:
And so, you’re casting vision from the pulpit for residency, and training leaders. And then you get into the weeds of going, okay, from there how are we going to develop our biblical study? What does that look like for us? Are we going to take a biblical theology approach, are we going to take a systematic approach? Are we going to move into… An easy thing for, I’m a big fan of the Austin Stone, we love them, we partner with them on a lot of things. I’m a big fan of their Doctrines and Disciplines book, I think it’s really easy to teach through, and really, not something you’ve got to have a doctorate to teach through. But those may be some of the first steps to take, and I know some of those aren’t necessarily, you’re not going to see a lot of tangibility, but I think it’s a lot of that foundational work that gives longevity, and even a desire to move your residents, or move your college students into a deeper, more meaningful residency.
Mitch Tidwell:
Man, that’s really good. I love the vision piece, again, if it’s not who you are, then it becomes a program, and eventually it’ll kind of flounder and find itself extinct. So, that is so good. Well Brandon, I think this has been a super helpful overview on residency, what it is, and some of the practical how to’s, on how you guys do that. Is there anything else that you would add to this, as far as, that maybe helpful to the listener?
Brandon Gilbert:
You know, I think that being open-handed is probably the biggest thing for us. This is not an easy road, and I think what I’ve learned in this, is I create a lot of relationships with young men and women, that I grow to love and do a lot of work with, and life with, and then seeing them sent, is really, really hard. And so, I think that that’s probably the biggest encouragement. This is really an open-handed, it’s not an easy road, it’s one where you’re going to create relationships and see people sent. But in the end, I keep telling myself, the gospel is worth it, His kingdom is worth it. And hopefully, we see some ripple effects of that in our nation, in our college towns and universities, and all over the state of Texas and beyond.
Mitch Tidwell:
You know, man, I think of a gal like Lizzie Medina, that was in your ministry, raised up through the residency, and then obviously sent out to plant. It’s like, man, what if we could just raise up about a thousand more Lizzie to do that? That would be pretty awesome. But I think that’s such a cool picture of what you guys have done, and produced, and really the vision that you guys have to do that. So, I’m really excited, and great information, Brandon. Thanks for being on, and man, appreciate your insight.
Brandon Gilbert:
I appreciate you, Mitch. Thanks for having me, man.
Mitch Tidwell:
You got it. Well friends, thanks for listening to The Roundup Podcast. Would love for you to rate, review and subscribe to our podcast on iTunes, Spotify, any major podcast outlet, and then follow us on social media, @SBTCcollegiate, we’re on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook. And keep up with us there, we also have a Facebook group called Roundup Network. You can join in there on conversations about college ministry, idea share, resource share, all those things. So, you’ll want to get in on that. But I appreciate you guys tuning in, and we’ll see you next time.
